Oh, She's Just Flighty

[00:00:20] Speaker A: Welcome to 45 left to right podcast. This episode is part part two of my ADHD series. Part one was about boys with ADHD and kind of went into. Boys tend to have hyperactivity, but not always. And that hyperactivity isn't necessarily just running around like a crazy boy. It also can mean being hyper emotional and also like, being very restless, but kind of like restless in their own bodies. So it's, I think, an interesting episode. So please check it out. And today's episode, we're going to talk about girls with ADHD because they present generally very differently with ADHD, you know, have just less external symptoms, but still suffer all the same. In this episode, I talked to my friend Amy, whose eight year old daughter Alex was just diagnosed with ADHD. Amy is kind of new in this journey and has been doing a lot of research and learning about things so she can help out Alex in the best way. We recorded the interview in my new sound booth, which is my car. It wasn't exactly what we were looking for in a car, but it happened to work out all the same. So I hope you enjoy this entire episode about ADHD in girls. [00:02:22] Speaker B: Welcome to 45 left to right podcast. I'm here today with my friend Amy, and she is going to talk about her daughter, Alexe, who just got ADHD diagnosis. So thanks so much for being here, Amy. [00:02:44] Speaker C: I'm happy to be here. [00:02:46] Speaker B: We are sitting in my new sound booth, my car, and having coffee. So see how this goes. All right, so tell me first, how do we know each other? [00:03:02] Speaker C: So we've been friends for like seven years. Yeah, yeah, about seven years. Became friends through friends, and now we have the privilege of knowing each other's kids really well, knowing our spouses really well. [00:03:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. We go camping together. We have all kinds of parties together with our friend group, so brunches when I think, to organize them. Well, tell me a little bit about your family. [00:03:38] Speaker C: So I have. So my daughter Alex, she's eight, almost nine, and my daughter, who's daughter, who's ten, and then my husband. So, yeah, that's our little family. [00:03:55] Speaker B: How did you meet your husband? [00:03:57] Speaker C: In college. [00:03:58] Speaker B: Okay. That's right. Trying to remember where you guys went to college. [00:04:02] Speaker C: Sonoma state. [00:04:03] Speaker B: That's right. [00:04:03] Speaker C: Okay, cool. [00:04:05] Speaker B: How long have you lived here in southern California? [00:04:10] Speaker C: I mean, most of my life because I grew up down here, and then I went away to school and then came back. Okay. So I would say most of my life. [00:04:18] Speaker B: Okay, nice. Lucky. Well, tell me a little bit about Alex. [00:04:25] Speaker C: So, Alex is really fun and life of the party. Definitely a little flighty sometimes, but definitely fun loving. Not necessarily very serious all the time, but very emotional, very sensitive. So, yeah. An interesting mix of personality traits, right? [00:04:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we. So we camp a lot together. And I love Alex because, I mean, she's adorable and she knows she's adorable, which is good. And she. So I think, likes to be at the center of attention, and we all willingly make her the center of attention. Yeah. So she's. I love her. She's great. And she has this beautiful strawberry blonde, curly hair, which I appreciate. Well, when did. So what grade is she in? [00:05:30] Speaker C: She's in the third grade. [00:05:32] Speaker B: She's in the third grade. Okay. When did you first notice maybe that Alex would be struggling because you kind of first noticed that it. School or. [00:05:42] Speaker C: Yes. Okay. We first noticed it in TK, but it was. That was a weird. That was a Covid year. So she was online for most of that year. It's a very weird year, so. It's not. We could have learned that year was very telling, but at the time, it was hard to pinpoint that anything from that year. And then kindergarten, we thought, would be a little smoother. And socially, she was great. She was a kind student. She was thoughtful. There was many things. She was fine socially in class, but she was having a hard time focusing. But we felt like it's kindergarten. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Right. [00:06:21] Speaker C: I feel like this is normal. We don't. Who knows? And then we ended up second grade. First grade comes around, same problem. Second grade, still a problem. And it was suggested to us from some people at school that maybe she might want. We might look into getting her assessed for adhd. [00:06:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Was it just parents at the school or was it like the. [00:06:47] Speaker C: It was like her student success team. Okay, so it's like a mix of teachers and other staff. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. And she is in a dual immersion program. [00:07:00] Speaker C: She is a dual immersion program. [00:07:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:02] Speaker C: Which complicates things a bit of. [00:07:04] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, I bet. [00:07:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, academically, was there any issues or was it just. I don't know. Was it behavioral? Academic. No. [00:07:14] Speaker C: Academic. [00:07:15] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:15] Speaker C: Truly academic. [00:07:16] Speaker B: Gotcha. [00:07:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And I guess, besides, like, kind of. Aside from the academic struggles, were there any other traits she had that maybe made you look into it more or. [00:07:35] Speaker C: I think she has the trait she has a hard time with. Emotional. Regulating her emotions. [00:07:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:42] Speaker C: Which some can be chopped up because she's a kid. [00:07:44] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:45] Speaker C: But it can be challenged. But I. Comparing it to. If you think about other kids, I think her swings can be a little bit bigger. [00:07:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:56] Speaker C: And her reactions. A lot bigger. [00:07:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I know. That's the struggle with it is how much of it is just being a kid and how much is it outside of that. And kids, there's like no normal kid. You know, you just have like normal things they do. Like I've talked about with, I was shocked when Devin played baseball when he was seven because all the kids cried when they struck out. And I'm like, wait, what's going on here? You know, and I thought, well, they're still really young, but it kept happening probably up until last year when. So he's twelve and, but, but again, like, I'm like, okay, well, it's just this normal, obviously, like they're all crying, so it's just this normal. Or, you know, sometimes Devin would have these really big emotional reactions to like just striking out or losing the game or whatever. Like what is this? You know? So it's hard to know. [00:09:09] Speaker C: Yes. [00:09:10] Speaker B: What's normal and what's nothing. So I know this was a process for you. So what was the process to get her diagnosed? [00:09:21] Speaker C: So we had to go through our health insurance. We got a packet that the teacher filled out and then we filled out and then it got from there. It went at least through how it works through our health insurance. And I think it's similar for a lot of people is then we had to go through this. A pediatrician, he like specialized in this and there's like a title for it, but like he'd had extra training. So he, we met with him and he looked at it and said, well, she has the possibility of having ADHD and that's what that assessment will tell you. [00:10:00] Speaker B: Okay. [00:10:01] Speaker C: It won't say for sure a child does this assignment necessarily. They might tell you, hey, I don't think that child does. But we were told, okay, it's possible and it's possible and you can have. Do you want to try medication? [00:10:14] Speaker B: Okay. [00:10:15] Speaker C: So that's generally how it works. So it's, once we got into that process, it wasn't too bad. It was pretty straightforward. [00:10:21] Speaker B: Okay, that's good. Yeah. [00:10:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's interesting. [00:10:24] Speaker B: I've heard that. And I don't know if this is just with children or also with adults is sometimes they use the medication as a diagnosis, like if it makes a big difference. [00:10:35] Speaker C: I don't know, I kind of, I feel like he, he did say that. Okay, he did say that. So it was, it helped it he, because it kicks in pretty kicks in very fast. [00:10:46] Speaker B: Okay. [00:10:46] Speaker C: So if there's a difference with focusing or, you know, things mellowing out a little bit, then okay. Then they're like, oh, you know, and that's how they also, how they know that it's the right medication. [00:10:59] Speaker B: Okay. Did you have to try a few or did the first one. [00:11:02] Speaker C: No, the first one seemed to be fine. They did warn us about side effects. [00:11:06] Speaker B: Okay. [00:11:07] Speaker C: So the side effect of like kids losing their appetite, which is a big one, so possibly having stunted growth because they weren't, they lost some of their appetite, which we're fine. We didn't have any of that or issues with sleeping. But I think if you have it, if you give it to the child in the morning, then, yeah, I don't know if it's highly likely they'd have a hard time sleeping, but every kid relaxed differently, so. [00:11:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. [00:11:29] Speaker C: Who knows? [00:11:30] Speaker B: I know, right? [00:11:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:31] Speaker B: Glad it's working. [00:11:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:33] Speaker B: Is she aware because she's still young, is she aware of it or. Yes, anything about it? Okay. [00:11:40] Speaker C: Yeah, she's, we've been really, we're really open with her about it because I think it helps to understand if you, if you feel like you're a little different, it helps to understand what's happening. [00:11:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:51] Speaker C: So she's aware she has ADHD. She talks about other kids at school who have ADHD. If someone asks her about it, she proudly says she has ADHD. We talk about things that happen and things that go. Certain behaviors she has or reactions and she talks about, we talk about maybe that being associated with it. So she understands what it, you know, how it might impact people and how it impacts her. Yeah. [00:12:20] Speaker B: Oh, interesting. Yeah. Like my last podcast episode with the ADHD and boys, I talked to another Alex and he was very aware, you know, not only as a twelve year old, but he mentioned when he was in kindergarten even feeling like he said everyone would be told, oh, you're doing a really good job. But he was never told that he. [00:12:48] Speaker A: Was doing a really good job. [00:12:49] Speaker B: And I just thought, wow, what an awareness, you know, I mean, the capacity for them to be aware of it. And of course I don't. I'm not surprised that Alex is like, well, I have ADHD is proud of it. Good for her. I love her spirit. How has the diagnosis for her changed the way you parent, if at all? I kind of parent her in particular. [00:13:19] Speaker C: I think I'm a lot more sensitive to situations like her behaviors, reactions she has and knowing maybe how to ease, maybe trying to ease up a little bit, trying know when it's not a good time to push something. Um, trying to find. Trying to walk the fine line between something being important to accomplish versus if it's a good time to be doing that. [00:13:48] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [00:13:49] Speaker C: Um, and trying to make my husband aware of that and be a little more sensitive to those moments. [00:13:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's, that's good. I know. And, you know, we don't have to touch on this too much, but Alex being diagnosed has also led to you kind of looking into it for yourself as well. [00:14:11] Speaker C: Yes. [00:14:11] Speaker B: Was that just through her diagnosis, the process, or. [00:14:15] Speaker C: Well, it's. Seeing her, I started to realize how much I can relate to her childhood experience and a lot of different aspects and started learning more about ADHD. Think the problem is that if a child has ADHD but they don't show hyperactivity, we think of it as being a hyperactive kid. [00:14:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:39] Speaker C: We. A lot of us, that's our first instinct. That's what we think. [00:14:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:42] Speaker C: But in inattentiveness, problem focusing is not something you immediately associate. So when I resisted, you know, even in the first grade when they said, you know, she's having a really hard time with focus, and I thought, kids have a hard time with focus. I don't think this is anything right. And I really resisted it, thinking, but she's not hyper. And then learning more about it and understanding about the focus issue made me realize how many. How hard I've had to work at my focusing and how hard it was for me in school. Sometimes academically, our experiences melds. We're starting to look very similar. [00:15:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And that is the challenge with diagnosing in girls, you know, because, and personally, I think of ADHD, I think of that very hyperactive, usually boy bouncing off the walls, disrupting class, being laugh, you know, loud. But girls have worthy inattentive thing, and I sort of cope, you know, because that's what they're supposed to do. They're not disruptive, they're just. But I'm glad you mentioned that. But they also, later in their lives, have less confidence because they're having to work so hard to get the good grades and all of that. And they, because we internalize, we're like, oh, I must be dumb. I'm not getting it, you know, whatever. And so I'm really happy she got an early diagnosis, you know, that's really big and cool of your school to be aware of that, you know? [00:16:27] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I'm appreciate, I appreciate that they pushed it. Yeah, a little bit. [00:16:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:32] Speaker C: Otherwise I might have still thought. No, yeah, right. Well, yeah, it's not. It's not ADHD. Yeah. But I've learned a lot about it myself, which is helpful to understand a lot more about it. [00:16:47] Speaker B: Yeah, no doubt. I mean, just doing this podcast, I'm like, oh. Oh, my gosh. I just. There's a lot I didn't know about it, you know, for sure. [00:16:57] Speaker A: And, yeah, I'm thinking about it for myself, you know? [00:17:01] Speaker B: Well, what kind of information, like, would you like to have for the future? Like, for her future? How. How it's gonna develop, maybe? Like, is it gonna change in her? You know? I guess. Are there some things that you still feel like you don't know about the ADHD for her? [00:17:23] Speaker C: Well, I don't entirely know how it impacts her reading ability, so we did. I did learn recently through another podcast about ADH. People with ADHD have a hard time with eye tracking, so then they. They can have a hard time with reading. Oh, interesting. And so it can be a challenge. I didn't know that. And since she's had such a hard time with. With reading, I think there's probably a good chance it has to do with her eye tracking. [00:17:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:58] Speaker C: But I. It's new for me. [00:18:00] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:00] Speaker C: So I definitely. I think my next goal is to understand that more and to learn more about, you know, how. What can help her with that and help her give her resources to, you know, to move on and improve with reading. [00:18:15] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, that's interesting. [00:18:17] Speaker C: I don't feel like that gets talked about very much. [00:18:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't know that. You know, that's interesting. But again, it kind of goes to, I think we're making changes, like, in schools, about identifying different traits for ADHD, but, yeah, I hadn't heard of that one. So, you know. So the information is out there somewhere. [00:18:40] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:18:43] Speaker B: Cool. Well, I really appreciate this. Thank you for being open to this interview. And like I said, I know it's still kind of a new thing for you, so I really appreciate it. Thank you. [00:19:09] Speaker A: Welcome back to 45 left to right podcast. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Amy. She's awesome, and she and her husband, I know, are doing all the right things for Alex, who is an absolute hoot and has a lot of personality and is just a great kid. So, shifting over, I want to just talk generally about girls who have ADHD and sort of their main traits. And I drew from several sources, so I'm gonna post those in my show notes. So most of this information is kind of a blend from several different sources. All right, so, according to the CDC, as of 2019, about 6.1 million children, which is 9.8% of children in the United States, had an ADHD diagnosis. 13% were males and 6% females. Now, we don't really know yet if it should be, you know, a 50 50, like a more even percentage of diagnosis. We do know that boys, you know, sort of the idea of ADHD is more how boys I present, because boys present in a more external way. But as we learn more about ADHD, you know, more girls are also being diagnosed. So because their traits are also being recognized. So let's talk about that. So boys tend to have hyperactive, impulsive ADHD, or combined type ADHD, which is basically, they have the inattentive type, and they also have hyperactive, impulsive type, where girls tend to have inattentive ADHD. And basically, they very simply look more like daydreamers, and they can be seen as shy. Now, every time I make a generalization according to gender, I cringe on the inside. So I want you to know, I know that this isn't necessarily always in a gender line, but I just wanted to be able to talk about ADHD in different ways. And it happened to kind of go along gender lines, but I know that this isn't 100%. Girls are always this way, and boys are always this way. I just want to establish that from the beginning. All right, so the thing with girls and their traits with ADHD is a lot of their traits are seen as personality characteristics versus being some sort of disorder or a symptom. So here are some of them. They can appear withdrawn, shy. They cry easily. They are, you know, daydream, or maybe she's in a world of her own. They have a difficulty maintaining focus or might be easily distracted. They might be disorganized and messy, not just in, you know, oh, my, their locker is disorganized, or they're not organized for school, but also probably their space at home. And also, it can be in appearance, they could just be disorganized or messy. It might seem they are nothing trying or don't seem motivated. They might appear to be forgetful, highly sensitive to noise, maybe had, like, a sensory, don't like certain kinds of fabrics. Might be emotional, hypertalkative, might have lots to say, but it might not be on topic or might change topics quickly, maybe not good at listening, not a good conversationalist, hyper reactivity. So having exaggerated emotional responses to something that's routine, like, let's say in a little or girl, someone skips them in line and they cry and they bawl, or they get really, really angry and might, you know, hit another kid or whatever, that's, you know, a hyper reaction. Maybe they look to be making careless mistakes because they have a hard time paying attention to detail. Might be late often. So has poor time management. Has just a hard time completing tasks. Seems shy. Might, I think it's already been mentioned a few times. Might get easily upset. They shift focus from one activity to another rather quickly, or shift to one activity to another without finishing one activity. Or either might take time to process information, directions. Maybe seems like they don't hear you verbally impulsive. Maybe blurts out and interrupts each other or talks about things that other people just aren't talking about around them. And perfectionism is a big one, and we'll kind of go into that later. Why now? If a girl is hyperactive, instead of saying, oh, my gosh, that girl is out of control or has a lot of energy, she's described as a tomboy because she engages in more physical activity and then might not be interested in girly things. I have a problem with this because the assumption is that girls aren't into sports or aren't into movement, which is. I mean, I think it's been disproven with the rise of girls in women's sports. You know, I don't know. It's just the assumption that, like, little girl things is sitting down and playing, having a tea party, whereas little girls run around, you know, their children, they run around and everything. So I don't love that. But it's still a stereotype that we're all familiar with. So the short of it is that girls ADHD traits are more subtle. And then girls also, as they have these ADHD traits, also internalize their experience with them. Like, they might be uncomfortable with having these traits, but instead of asking for help or anything like that, they just go inside, try to deal with it themselves, really suffer on their own by themselves. But it's why girls who have ADHD are not caught early, because their symptoms are just seen as personality quirks. My friend Amy was very lucky to have a, you know, have Alex in a school where they're looking out for, you know, their. Their version of. Or their view of ADHD is much broader, and they seem to have awareness of how ADHD is in boys and girls. So Alex is really lucky because she got an early diagnosis, but it is not that way for most girls. So the next. This is kind of a specific article I found that was interesting. It's called boys hyperactivity. Disruptiveness draws more attention than girls flightiness. This is according to Patricia Quinn, MD, director of the National center for Gender Issues and ADHD in DC. All right, so according to this article, girls still have hyperactivity. But instead of blurting out answers, interrupting, or even getting out of their seats when not allowed, girls just might talk incessantly, be hyper emotional, or be always on the go. A girl who talks all the time is often viewed by the teacher as chatty but not hyper or problematic, and then is less likely to be evaluated for ADHD. You know, the teacher isn't alerted, like, oh, something's up. They just think, oh, well, this is just how this girl is. So Doctor Patricia Quinn and Sharon Wigal, PhD, who is an associate clinical professor of pediatrics at one of my alma maters, UC Irvine, they did a survey. They surveyed 3234 people, which included members of the general public who did not have ADHD and whose children did not have ADHD, and then parents of children with the condition teachers, and then the children with ADHD who were between the ages of twelve and 17. So big survey. 85% of the teachers and more than half of the parents and the public believe that girls with ADHD are more likely to go undiagnosed. That's a big percentage. And these are certainly people in the know. In this poll, they said girls are more likely to suffer silently or show fewer symptoms, or at least fewer symptoms that most people would associate with ADHD. You know, those who were not informed about it, like me, probably two months ago, four out of ten of the teachers reported having more trouble recognizing ADHD symptoms in girls than boys. And honestly, I thought that would have been higher. I thought it would have been like six or seven out of ten. So four, that's, that's an improvement. So, according to the same poll, girls suffer more negative effects from their ADHD than boys. Girls are actually more likely than boysenhe to be asked to repeat a grade for poor performance. And I think some of this, this is just Doris talking. I wonder if some of this is because we have higher academic standards for girls. I think there is an idea that girls are supposed to be the good ones. We're supposed to be the ones that say still, that pay attention, that are organized, that do our work quietly and do very well. Now, I don't think we're giving our boys much credit for not expecting them to be that way, but I do think girls feel a greater pressure to perform. You know, we're supposed to be astute and organized and boys are supposed to be a mess, which, again, really sells boys short. But I just think that's how it is right now. When a boy struggles, he is more likely to be evaluated for ADHD or a learning disability and then diagnosed. And then if he gets a diagnosis, diagnosis, he gets treatment, but he's not held back in his grade. But a teacher who observes a disorganized female student, one who can't plan ahead, can't meet project deadlines and so on, teachers generally believe that this kind of student will benefit from being held back a year. But this is, according to doctor Quinn, a year later, the girl is no better off because she still hasn't figured out the source of her problem. So she's held back, not evaluated for ADHD or a learning disability, and that's it. Like, she doesn't get the help. And in a lot of school districts, I know our school district here will actually just keep passing students through until they hit high school, and then they'll hold them back or flunk them. So it's. I really disagree with that, but that's just how some school districts are handling it. So because girls with ADHD aren't diagnosed, they have more mood disorders, they have anxiety and self esteem problems as compared to non girls who don't have ADHD. So think about this. Let's say a girl with ADHD got an a on a report, but had to work three times as hard to get that a. They feel dumb or they feel not as smart as other people because they look at I had to work so hard for this a. Why is it so hard for me not knowing that ADHD could be the issue? And then they think I'm dumb, I'm stupid. You know, there's also this expectation, I think, for girls to not make waves to, you know, get their schoolwork done and girls have to perform at a higher level anyway, I think to get ahead. There's lots of cultural things that I can rant about here, but our culture generally encourage. I encourages girls to be more socially conscious so they want to please more than boys, and they are expected to do well in school. Because of that, they develop more strategies to mask their ADHD, like taking more extensive notes or being hyper organized or even hyper focused on something. So let's say a girl with ADHD might struggle with several subjects. Let's say she's just not interested in science and not interested in English, but really loves math. Well, she can hyper focus on math and do really well on math and talk a lot about math and be one of the best students in math, but might not do as well on the other subjects. But because she's such a star in math, no one thinks there's a problem. No one thinks that academically there's a problem. So that's one way that they can mask their ADHD. Perfectionism is a big trait in girls with ADHD. And then, you know, usually if we. I don't know anyone, boy, girl, man, woman, gets a diagnosis of something, of some kind of illness or mood disorder or injury, it's a bummer. But a girl suffering from ADHD that gets a diagnosis for ADHD usually feels relieved. She is happy to have an answer for why she isn't like everyone else or why she has to work harder to get the same results. 56% of girls survey said that they felt better after having a name for what they felt. Welcome back to 45 left to right podcast. I just want to talk a little bit about how having a delayed diagnosis affects girls with ADHD. It's not just, oh, you know, they got help late. There's some very significant issues that come up by not getting an early diagnosis, like Alex got. Alright, so this is from an article called how girls with ADHD are different. And I found it on childmind.org, but it's got a lot of, you know, clinical, like, experts in this field that are involved with this one. So let's see the writer. The author is Ray Jacobson, but then the clinical, excuse me, experts are Stephen Henshaw, Patricia Quinn, MD, and Kathleen Nadu, who, by the way, I am interviewing tomorrow to talk about ADHD in girls and in women. So I'm very excited. So stay tuned for that. Okay, so it's basically not getting a diagnosis. It doesn't just affect their academic success. You know, it's not just about not getting services or accommodations. It also results in girls having more trouble with their mental health, which, of course, also impacts their self esteem. One issue that you wouldn't think about, I think I wouldn't normally, is that girls with ADHD in particular can struggle to make and keep friends. They can develop depression, anxiety, and then they have higher rates of self harm, of substance abuse, eating disorders and even suicide attempts as compared to other girls. And girls, they go into this a little bit later, but the relationships girls have with each other are much more nuanced than, honestly, what. What boys have with each other. It's just a different way of relating. So. So, you know, that is. Is also an issue. So boys tend to externalize their frustration. Like if they don't do well on a test, the teacher is mean or stupid, and the test is wrong or unfair. So they act out. Girls blame themselves, and they turn their anger and frustration inward. It's like what we talked about before. Well, I must be dumb if I'm not getting it like other their kids are. It must be a me problem. So according to Kathleen Nadeau, director of the Chesapeake center for ADHD, girls have a hard time decoding the more complicated social nuances that are in between girls. What to say, what to wear, how to talk, when to be comforting, when to be mean. That is really difficult for a girl with ADHD to decipher. Hell, if you don't have ADHD, it's difficult to decipher. I mostly had guys as friends, actually, growing up because I just. I don't know, I just. Girl stuff was too complicated for me, you know? Doctor Nadu says that girls are under a lot more pressure to be socially tuned in and self controlled. According to doctor Steven Henshaw, girls are in what he calls a triple bind. They must be good at the girly things, like be pretty, be empathetic, be demure, which is a funny TikTok trend right now, and be polite. But they also must be good at the guy things. They must be competitive and driven, be funny, be athletic, and also conform to these impossible standards. Make it look effortless and look hot while you're doing it. And that was weird terminology for me, but I know what he's trying to say. He's also one of the best experts in the field, so I'll give it to him. So the next article is under diagnosed and undertreated girls with ADHD face distinct risk. This is by Rodrigo Perez Ortega, and this was April 17, 2020, and I found it in knowledgeablemagazine.org dot. So, according to doctor Henshaw, girls with inattentive type of ADHD are assumed to have anxiety or troubles at home. He conducted a large, long and time period study called the Berkeley girls with ADHD longitudinal study, which is also shortened to be gals. And he followed 140 girls with ADHD and then compared them to 88 girls without ADHD, and followed all of them from 1997 onward. I can't remember when it. When it stopped. So from girls into womanhood. And then another study conducted by Harvard psychiatrist and scientist Joseph Bederman found that teen girls with ADHD are twice more likely to have major depression. So with his findings and then doctor Hinshaw's findings, this is a little depressing. But I think it needs to be said girls and teens are more prone to self harm, to suicide attempts. They are more likely to become involved with violent partners, more risky sexual behavior, and higher rates of unplanned pregnancies. And that is just skimming the surface of some of the issues. So you might look at a girl who's 910 or eleven who might be struggling academically, and you might just think it's part of who she is, just, you know, she's having normal struggles or, you know, my. Whatever. My daughter is flighty. My daughter is just really talkative. Ha ha ha. But it's really worth getting them evaluated if there's anything out of the ordinary there, because the longer they go without a diagnosis, the more they are inwardly struggling with it and with their traits and just with all that comes with it. And that can affect them for the rest of their lives in negative ways. So I know we need to stop looking at ADHD as just a boy's disorder. We need to stop thinking of it as just, oh, it's a boy. He's disruptive, he's talkative, he interrupts in class, and he's not performing academically or whatever. It's more than that. Even boys can have the inattentive type, the more flighty daydreamer kind of thing. You know, it's a real disorder. And if it's not diagnosed on time or early, it can lead to really, really serious things. Welcome back to 45 left to right podcast. I hope you've enjoyed this episode today about ADHD in girls. This whole series has really helped me understand a disorder that I see the name everywhere, whether it's referenced seriousness, like someone has a diagnosis or kind of as a flippant remark, oh, my, ADHD. All of that is valid. But it led me to want to look into it a lot more and to see the differences between boys and girls has been really interesting to me. And so coming up ahead next week, I interviewed a man named Michael McLeod. He is basically a coaching expert for ADHD. He helps kids kind of deal with what he calls, and this is used a lot in ADHD executive function and also teaching parents how to handle their kids with ADHD. Different things to do and boundaries to set and all kinds of really interesting things. So I interviewed him, and he's going to talk kind of more about parenting kids with ADHD. And then tomorrow, but available to you in a couple of weeks. I am interviewing Kathleen Nadeau, and I hope I pronounced that right. She is also an expert in ADHD in particular ADHD in girls and women. And actually most recently she's been doing research about women who are postmenopausal who are just getting a diagnosis for ADHD. So she's going to be really interesting. And then I'll probably take a little gap in my ADHD series and then later we'll do one about eight ADHD in women and ADHD in men. So I want to remind you that I have a website 45. Leftorrightpodcast.com and you need to go there right now. I want you to press end on this podcast episode and go directly to my website because there if you have any comments like Darice, I hated this episode, or Darice, I love all of your episodes, or somewhere in between, you can go there and go to my blog and make comments. And I would love that. I would love some interaction with with everyone. Also, the advantage of the website is you can share it to anybody and they can access the episodes on basically any podcast app that they choose. So go right now 45. Leftandrightpodcast.com and hope you enjoyed and bye for now.